Professor Marcus du Sautoy, Simonyi Professor for the Public Understanding of Science at the University of Oxford, has been long credited for his efforts to popularise science – particularly mathematics and related subjects.
Here, he discusses his motivation for popularising mathematics and the balance between his academic research and public engagement, and explores the challenges and goals of democratising science.
Emphasising the importance of informed decision-making on complex issues like artificial intelligence, energy, and even music, du Sautoy has a wide-ranging array of expertise which he intends to share with the public.
Read more in Research Features
Image Source: New College Portraits by John Cairns
Transcript
Hello, I’m Todd. Welcome to ResearchPod.
Mathematics may have a reputation for being difficult or disconnected from everyday life for many. But for Professor Marcus du Sautoy, it’s a source of creativity, structure, and insight — to be shared widely.
As the Simonyi Professor for the Public Understanding of Science at the University of Oxford, du Sautoy has built a career on making complex ideas accessible. He’s helped thousands of people discover the beauty and relevance of mathematics — whether in the patterns of nature, the logic of music, or the rise of artificial intelligence.
In this interview with our sister publication, Research Features, we learn about the challenges of engaging the public with science, the evolving connections between maths and creativity, and why informed decision-making is more important than ever in our increasingly complex world.
[00:30]
Todd: Could we start by chatting about your role as the face of public science at Oxford?
Prof. Marcus du Sautoy: Yeah, so I have this job called the Professor for the Public Understanding of Science, which is an incredibly grand-sounding title. It makes everyone think I must know the whole of science and I’m here to explain it to everyone! But I think of this role a bit like being an ambassador. Every country sends ambassadors to other countries to help communication between foreign lands, and for me, science can feel like a foreign territory to many people. So we need ambassadors to help bridge that communication gap.
My role is really about facilitating involvement from the public who perhaps aren’t scientifically trained, but who are nonetheless impacted by science. And in order to be empowered to decide how to act on science, you have to understand it.
[01:30]
Todd: Is there any sense of democratising science in what you do? Making it more accessible?
Prof. Marcus du Sautoy: It’s a tricky issue. I can’t make someone into a scientist in an afternoon at the Cheltenham Science Festival. So a full democratisation is probably not realistic. But what we can do is provide enough information so people can make informed decisions. A lot of science has political implications—stem cells, AI, energy choices.
My title is quite old-school: “Professor for the Public Understanding of Science.” It suggests a top-down delivery. These days, you’d probably call it something more egalitarian, like “Professor of Science and Society.” But it’s true—we have technical knowledge that’s built over years of research, and the challenge is how to distil it into an afternoon, a TV show, or a book. You’re not trying to turn someone into a mathematician, but to help them appreciate what it means to be one.
[03:40]
Todd: And I suppose part of that is about igniting curiosity?
Prof. Marcus du Sautoy: Absolutely. In a way, I’m paying it forward to the scientists who inspired me. You can see how packed the festival is today with school students. Some of them may become the next generation of scientists who solve the problems we can’t.
But it’s not just about the young. I think there’s a misconception that science outreach is only for school kids. Actually, it’s also about those in power—people in government, industry, even parents and teachers—who influence society and need to be scientifically literate.
[05:10]
Todd: Can we chat about your music as well?
Prof. Marcus du Sautoy: Music is one of my great passions. When I was younger, it was a real toss-up between music and mathematics. I’m a trumpeter, and I realised that being a musician is hard work. And I’m rather lazy! With maths, if you can solve a problem, you can do it quickly. But with trumpet, you need hours of practice.
Still, I’ve maintained a deep interest in music, and it’s influenced my professional work. Mathematics is the science of patterns, and music is the art of patterns. That shared idea of pattern connects the two. I’ve used music to explore mathematical ideas and even set up a centre with a composer in Manchester called PRISM—Practice and Research in Science and Music—at the Royal Northern College of Music.
[07:20]
Todd: And outside of music, you’ve collaborated with comedians and other creatives. Has that changed your approach to science communication?
Prof. Marcus du Sautoy: You’re very helpfully teeing up my next book, Blueprints. I’ve worked with all sorts of artists—visual, literary, architectural, even comedians. And again, many creative disciplines deal with structure. Since mathematics is the study of structure, there’s often a natural crossover.
These collaborations help me explain maths to artistic audiences, but they also challenge me. For instance, I did a project on a cello piece by Yannis Xenakis. As I analysed it, I realised he was using a symmetry structure from my own area of research—one I’d never considered before. So good sci-art collaborations are truly two-way: not just artists mining scientific ideas, but also scientists gaining new insights.
[09:40]
Todd: Speaking of that two-way dialogue, does your engagement with public audiences affect how you teach at Oxford?
Prof. Marcus du Sautoy: Definitely. Only by engaging with audiences do you learn what metaphors, stories, and explanations actually resonate. I’ve worked with the theatre company Complicite, and they say their early shows are just rehearsals with an audience. That’s true of science communication too. You’re always learning and refining.
[10:50]
Todd: Do audiences ever surprise you?
Prof. Marcus du Sautoy: Yes—sometimes I’ll say something earnestly, and the audience will burst out laughing. That’s when I realise there’s humour I hadn’t noticed. Humor often involves an unexpected twist, and science has plenty of those. Once you recognise that, you can use it to build engagement.
[11:45]
Todd: How have you found this year’s festival?
Prof. Marcus du Sautoy: I’ve been coming since around 2006, and it’s evolved in exciting ways. This year it feels incredibly vibrant. I’m involved in a range of events that show the festival’s scope. There’s some lovely crossover between science, literature, and music. Tonight, I’m doing a music event about composing for planets beyond our solar system—inspired by Holst, who’s connected to Cheltenham. We’re imagining musical interpretations of these alien worlds.
Yesterday we did a session on the science of deception—a mix of psychology, storytelling, and even the TV show The Traitors. I’ve also got an event about my book on games. So I think the festival is really embracing interdisciplinary ideas.
[13:40]
Todd: I spoke to Marieke Navin, and she said she wants to show people the scientific value of everyday things. Your work seems aligned with that.
Prof. Marcus du Sautoy: Absolutely. I use that strategy too. My recent book on games is all about that. Everyone loves games, and they’re full of maths. If you understand the maths behind them, it gives you an edge.
Another book, The Number Mysteries, used everyday objects like teabags. Why are some teabags tetrahedral? That opens up a conversation about geometry. It’s a great way to ease people into mathematics without triggering their anxiety.
[15:00]
Todd: Do you have any other strategies for making complex ideas accessible?
Prof. Marcus du Sautoy: Storytelling. Science is really storytelling that’s consistent with data. Every theory is a story about how things work. When I work with Oxford students on outreach, I remind them: every lecture is a performance. You’re taking the audience on a journey.
Even in academic talks, that performance element matters. Public engagement has helped me as a researcher because I apply the same communication principles when speaking to colleagues.
[16:20]
I’m actually working on a theatre project now. It’s called The Axiom of Choice, a play for four actors. I co-wrote and am co-directing it with a young director I met through past projects. We’re touring it in India this autumn. It weaves in Indian mathematics and philosophy, and I’m very excited about it.
Leave a Reply