Cabot Institute for the Environment’s Professor Rich Pancost and Roger Griffith MBE discuss “Power of People in climate action”. This discussion covers the power of people, words and cultural change in the climate crisis and how community engagement and empowering communities will help us all.
Image Credit: Cabot Institute
Transcript:
00:00:07 Cabot Institute
Welcome to Cabot conversations produced by the Cabot Institute for the Environment at the University of Bristol.
00:00:13 Cabot Institute
We are a diverse community of 600 experts united by a common cause protecting our environment and identifying ways of living better with our changing planet.
00:00:23 Cabot Institute
This podcast series brings together our experts and collaborators to discuss complex environmental challenges and solutions to climate change. In this episode, professor Rich Pancost and Roger Griffiths discuss the power of people in climate action.
00:00:38 Cabot Institute
You can find out more about the Cabot Institute for the environment at bristol.ac.uk/cabot.
00:00:50 Prof Rich Pancost
My name is Rich Pancost. I’m the head of the School of Earth Sciences at the University of Bristol. I used to be the director of the Cabot Institute for the Environment before I was head of school.
00:00:59 Prof Rich Pancost
Well, when I’m not being head of school or directing habit, I study climate change in the past and in order to better understand what might happen in the future. But in doing so, one of the things I’ve become really interested in is the intersection of environmental and social justice. And in doing so, I I I’ve been fortunate enough to work with a lot of great collaborators around the city.
00:01:19 Prof Rich Pancost
But mainly my friend and colleague Roger.
00:01:22 Prof Rich Pancost
So, Roger, you want to introduce yourself?
00:01:24 Roger Griffith MBE
Thank you for that warm introduction. So I am Roger Griffith. I am the associate lecturer at University of West England, Bristol. I’m an author of “My American Odyssey: From the Windrush to the White House” and I am.
00:01:44 Roger Griffith MBE
CEO of my own consultancy, Creative connects as well, and the former chair of.
00:01:51 Roger Griffith MBE
Emma Radio, as well as a a broadcaster there and in that context has brought me in in our sense of of Bristol and our sense of collaborations and and social justice and environmentalism and all those things brought me and doctor Rich brancos not only on the collaboration of the project, but also a a very great.
00:02:11 Roger Griffith MBE
Can ship as well.
00:02:14 Prof Rich Pancost
So. So obviously one of the things that we’ve been asked to talk about is the power of people and words and cultural change in the in the climate change movement and addressing the climate emergency.
00:02:24 Prof Rich Pancost
And in light of that.
00:02:27 Prof Rich Pancost
You know, it makes sense to sort of talk with grassroots initiatives such as the green and black ambassadors that.
00:02:32 Prof Rich Pancost
We worked on, but actually Roger.
00:02:33 Prof Rich Pancost
You mentioned you your prominent role at UJIMA radio and I must admit when when I was beginning to think about the intersection of of, of environmental and social justice issues during, you know, the prelude to the green capital year, the.
00:02:45 Prof Rich Pancost
You know, prior to Bristol being the European Green Capital in 20.
00:02:49 Prof Rich Pancost
15 yeah, I was thinking about working with counselors, civil society and such. And until I met you, I never actually thought to work with Fujima radio or community radio station. I I think it would be great to actually spend a few minutes talking about the power of community radio and in ujima being for being an advocate for minority voices in Bristol.
00:03:09 Roger Griffith MBE
That is a a great place to start, so a little bit about the GMA Radio community radio station and around 2011 onwards, really when we started in environmentalism, we.
00:03:22 Roger Griffith MBE
Wanted to move more.
00:03:24 Roger Griffith MBE
UM, not to be more than just a radio station in effect, and that took its full routes in 2015, both with the work could be done with Rich, also with Arts Council England become one of the first radio stations to be supported to move into that realm of activism, social justice and doing that as a giving people a voice through the medium of.
00:03:44 Roger Griffith MBE
Of of Radio and Arts and social action projects such as what was then known as Green and black projects, which we changed to the Black and green projects there. So we had a a project.
00:03:56 Roger Griffith MBE
In 2011.
00:03:58 Roger Griffith MBE
Called Citizen Journalists, which we did with university, West of England, Bristol and University of Bristol. So we’ve always had a real good support from the academic universities we’ve had, that that support with both mayors George Ferguson and Marvin Reese supportive. Marvin attended one of our workshops and he was a.
00:04:18 Roger Griffith MBE
Candidate and bought the ones. Then in the days of the Europe.
00:04:23 Roger Griffith MBE
In MP Claire Moody to our one of our conferences as well, when we had those conversations and the premise then is now is is very simple. Black communities, communities of color, we’ve may have may have moved to now, but the premise is still there are, you know as well as with all the stuff that we’re going on into.
00:04:44 Roger Griffith MBE
Social injustice. We’re also marginalizing this, this conversation, environmentalism, and there are some members of the.
00:04:50 Roger Griffith MBE
Community want to play a A.
00:04:52 Roger Griffith MBE
Part of it. What are you doing?
00:04:55 Roger Griffith MBE
Which paint costs of Cabot Institute. What’s Crystal Green capital doing? And that in instance 2015, we are definitely. I’m seeing a sea of white bases. You know, as far as I’m concerned, just talking about polar bears and I, you know, I love the old polar bear cuddly as a as hell. But in in Africa, Asia, throughout the Caribbean, we’re seeing our communities.
00:05:15 Roger Griffith MBE
Devastated from this.
00:05:17 Roger Griffith MBE
Incremental movement of climate warming.
00:05:21 Roger Griffith MBE
We’ve come from those communities and farmland. We were the the, the, the very our hands in the toil until in the land, in enslavement communities in the Caribbean and in in in the US as well. And we’re still through, you know, through migration expanses through our customs and practices.
00:05:41 Roger Griffith MBE
Through eating plant based diets from Asia and that’s planted in Saint marks.
00:05:46 Roger Griffith MBE
Road in Bristol, right the way through to our Rastafarian communities and nice health food and and it was, you know well before words like vegan were invented. We have all these great stories and narratives to be a part of. Part of that. How can we break down these barriers? What do you need? What do we need? How can we get involved? So this is the the intersection where Rich and I.
00:06:08 Roger Griffith MBE
Came together to create the next phase of that which.
00:06:13 Roger Griffith MBE
As the green and black are now black and green program for a year within 2015, if you’re going about this series of events, I’m sure we will talk a little bit more about through to the first phase of green black ambassadors, which was Zakir Mackenzie and Jasmine Foley. And then to our present in.
00:06:33 Roger Griffith MBE
Incumbent, now with receiving National Lottery funding.
00:06:37 Prof Rich Pancost
I mustn’t confess as well, certainly.
00:06:41 Prof Rich Pancost
In the year 2021, when we’re filming this, it’s almost a bit embarrassing to to to reflect on how naive many of us in the environmental movement were in 2014 and 2015, and the connections between exploiting labor and explored exploiting minoritized groups and the legacy of slavery and the similarities.
00:07:00 Prof Rich Pancost
Of that, between exploiting the environment, exploiting the planet, all as a consequence of the type of economy that we built, are are so painfully obvious right now in in the era of Black Lives Matter and such we we know that.
00:07:14 Prof Rich Pancost
The forces that that lend us to exploit marginalized groups are fairly universal. And yet, in 2014 and 2015, I think one of the issues was is that we.
00:07:24 Prof Rich Pancost
Thought it was fairly.
00:07:27 Prof Rich Pancost
Implicit, we thought that probably the environmental movement was somewhat left-leaning and therefore was a natural home for social justice and and that we were.
00:07:36 Prof Rich Pancost
I think we assumed at the time that we were predisposed to being welcoming and understanding. And of course the problem was that we were, you know, we lacked diversity and therefore we lacked a sophisticated understanding of those issues and and that those have come to the forefront over the past couple of years. I definitely remember, I remember some of my first conversations.
00:07:56 Prof Rich Pancost
Every time I give a climate change talk, there was a long time when I didn’t mention the social justice issues, mainly because I didn’t think that telling the audience that they were bad people was a way to, to, to motivate change.
00:08:07 Prof Rich Pancost
And around 2010, 2011, 2012, I stopped doing that. I felt it was dishonest. You needed to talk about those social justice issues. You need to talk about, not polar bears. But as you said, Rob, you need to talk about the people who were suffering now because of climate change. People are suffering now because of environmental degradation. And so I put that a lot more into my talks and certainly I was putting that into the lot of the presentations in the lead up to the green capital.
00:08:29 Prof Rich Pancost
At which point I was called out by a couple of friends. I was called out by you. I was called out by.
00:08:35 Prof Rich Pancost
Well, I was called out by Marvin Reese before he was even a mayoral candidate and said absolutely agree that there’s a profound intersection between environmental and social justice. So how come I go to your events and I only see white people in the audience and I only see white people on stage. And that was a real wake up call to realize that diversity could not be taken for granted by.
00:08:54 Prof Rich Pancost
Any of us, and we needed to put.
00:08:55 Prof Rich Pancost
Real, real effort into it and I really appreciate all of the, you know, the labor that you put into of sort of like helping me on that journey and and helping me understand and working together and I suppose.
00:09:07 Prof Rich Pancost
It’s been it’s been.
00:09:09 Prof Rich Pancost
Incredibly fulfilling and successful, but I think it was a challenge for the city at the start for us to have that conversation because we were meant to be celebrating the green capital. We were meant to be celebrating this huge achievement and then all of a sudden we were asking these questions about, well, why is the environmental movement non inclusive? What? Why why is?
00:09:26 Prof Rich Pancost
It not diverse and.
00:09:27 Prof Rich Pancost
And that that was why we had the green and black conversation. Maybe we should talk a little bit about that. I remember sort of sitting with you in a couple of, you know, community centres with with, you know, a a range of people.
00:09:38 Prof Rich Pancost
Voicing their frustrations with trying to get their opinions onto the agenda and simply.
00:09:43 Prof Rich Pancost
Not being heard.
00:09:45 Roger Griffith MBE
Yeah. So we.
00:09:45 Roger Griffith MBE
We we we very much uh created our our our own it was the work of Paul Fan and George Davis who invented the the slogan who who took that forward I mean my my role was very much as a a facilitator and producer and that and put the kind of actors in the in the in the picture like.
00:10:05 Roger Griffith MBE
As care and our and the voyeurs and the seas and Libya.
00:10:10 Roger Griffith MBE
Today and Jasmine in the in the in in the in the past. And you know that that was a message that you you kind of took on on on, on but you know you can get one of the two of us into kind of board them in if you like if you like. But I mean the real change really needs to get that that grassroots a A level and that’s where we have.
00:10:28 Roger Griffith MBE
To take that into a conversation.
00:10:30 Roger Griffith MBE
To me, and it still is then it’s now and in you know, it’s in embedded in my, in my work, all of these things because it’s you and I and our and our first meeting and our you know what we would contextually know is storming and Norman frames whereas you know some uncomfortable truths.
00:10:50 Roger Griffith MBE
Had to be said and and there has been an acknowledgment because as far as you know. But it was me, Marvin, already a person, activist or or or otherwise. This is kind of an an unequivocal we’re still having that, that that kind of conversation in in, in in 2021 in terms of just getting it on the on the agenda we know.
00:11:10 Roger Griffith MBE
You know the in terms of lack of the work of, of, of Marvin and I, we will come armed with knowing that although.
00:11:18 Roger Griffith MBE
You know what’s known as the curse of the white Liberals we see now in the, you know, has been called out through wisdom and and stuff. There is a strategy to to dealing with that until we turn them into.
00:11:27 Roger Griffith MBE
Allies which you have now.
00:11:30 Roger Griffith MBE
Become. But we’re we’re we’re armed with those with with, you know, how could we possibly be racist? Not calling out the individual.
00:11:38 Roger Griffith MBE
Like you, you, you, you know we’re not. We’re not, we’re not.
00:11:40 Roger Griffith MBE
Saying that the people in the environmental movement movement, you know, have to be, you know, gone white hats at nights and then, you know, pointing towards that. But when what we are saying is that some of the actions there, the fact that you can quite, you know, you can sit comfortably and talk about these issues in.
00:12:00 Roger Griffith MBE
In Africa and Asia and not have people from the from them be part of that program or and funding specifically and the and that’s a key thing with 2015. When you looked across the the where the cash was going.
00:12:13 Roger Griffith MBE
You know, I’ve moved from the hearts and minds to to following the money and the and the.
00:12:17 Roger Griffith MBE
And the and.
00:12:18 Roger Griffith MBE
The economics of of argument follow the money then, to to where, where and this wasn’t. This is outside of cabinetry, met and outside of of of we come to the organization. The funding went to consultants and it were.
00:12:32 Roger Griffith MBE
Who didn’t even live in the city, so I didn’t. Obviously, we had an issue with that and they certainly was there were, there were one representative of a, as we’ve seen during 2020, thriving activist, a, A community that needed that can engage.
00:12:47 Roger Griffith MBE
Each communities of color with the with this issue, so we called foul and and we’re like like you know because the thing was full of holes and had leaked in its roof. We we found a way of getting in and that was George Davis and and and and carried in he went from outsider to insider started with these conversations where we had the.
00:13:07 Roger Griffith MBE
And got people in the room and and people like cells and and Vicky at Bristol Green Capital Partners listened to some of the conversations for the first time in terms of barriers and but we also looked at solutions. So you know, that’s the gang, but that that worked fine for me to to to, you know, help but you know.
00:13:24 Roger Griffith MBE
Like, OK, you. You know you’re you’re my friend and brother. Let’s work hard and and and. And now we’ve got through the acknowledgement part. Let’s look at some of the solutions, because this stuff is is hard enough. We’re talking about centuries of injustice that I’ve I’ve touched upon there either, you know, in terms of them post slavery in terms of colonialism, industrialization that you that that you’ve talked about and that’s what’s mentioned about.
00:13:45 Roger Griffith MBE
More than the money, only then can you you then start to start picking out what the problems are and how you’re going to change behaviour as as as as well, arts and minds and get you so far. And that’s for other people to deliver.
00:13:58 Prof Rich Pancost
I I remember, you know, some of those original conversations and and you know as.
00:14:02 Prof Rich Pancost
I think it was Jules who sort of came to one of our meetings and said, you know, this, this group is a bunch of well meaning white people. Oh, man, that was, you know, there was a lot, a lot, a lot to unpack in that statement there. And as soon as we have those conversations, and again, you know, you and Jules curated a a really generous space where people can be honest.
00:14:22 Prof Rich Pancost
And listen and learn.
00:14:25 Prof Rich Pancost
But it became quite.
00:14:26 Prof Rich Pancost
Evident of, you know, I I I definitely remember that some of the first conversations we were having is.
00:14:32 Prof Rich Pancost
The environmental movement must be broad and it must be inclusive in order to achieve the change that we want and then straight away we were called out on that quite rightfully saying that’s your agenda. You’re you’re saying that inclusion is not important for its own sake. You’re saying it’s it’s important in order for you to achieve your agenda. And yeah, I remember.
00:14:52 Prof Rich Pancost
Some of the key comments that people you know were were saying that even when we are invited to these events, we’re invited after the agenda is set.
00:15:02 Prof Rich Pancost
The other one that really struck me was the point that you made just now, which was that inclusion was not simply that was Nice and was strength in the movement, but it was an obligation, not only because it was right, but because there was money, there was money flowing, there was money coming to Bristol and going to the usual suspects and and there was, you know.
00:15:22 Prof Rich Pancost
Not only were we not in.
00:15:23 Prof Rich Pancost
Inclusive, but it was inequitable. We were actually doing harm by excluding these initiatives that already existed. So yeah, so there is some tough lessons and it’s been a little frustrating, I think, looking around over the past couple of years because these lessons seem to have to be learned again and again and again. I don’t think XRP meant any harm when they decided that their main form of protest was going to be to get arrested.
00:15:45 Prof Rich Pancost
But obviously it was quite it was. It was quite naive. If they wanted to be inclusive to not understand what that message said to, you know, especially, you know, well, a range of minoritized groups, but especially black people in this country, to say that giving.
00:16:01 Prof Rich Pancost
No. Rested will be our aim and.
00:16:04
That.
00:16:05 Prof Rich Pancost
Mistake did not arise from malice. It arises from a relatively homogeneous, non diverse movement that simply did not understand those issues. So we’re still learning unfortunately, but I think once you begin to see it, you, you you see it everywhere and it becomes not just an issue of how do we make a successful movement, but it becomes an issue of what’s right and wrong.
00:16:25 Prof Rich Pancost
Especially in Bristol, right? This is a thriving city with a thriving green economy, and if it’s not inclusive, then we are denying huge parts of the economy to, you know, black and minority ethnic people. So. So there’s a.
00:16:37 Prof Rich Pancost
Still obligation to act on it and that’s why. Well, I and that’s why it’s been such a pleasure working with you because it’s been so fun to.
00:16:45 Prof Rich Pancost
Well, has been challenging, but it’s also been joyful to see where the change has happened. It’s made a real difference, I suppose. In my experience, probably where I’ve seen the biggest difference was with our first couple of ambassadors. You know it’s, you know, we we brought them in, they were given training, they were given a platform on UJIMA radio. We gave them platform and other venues and and they’ve gone on and.
00:17:06 Prof Rich Pancost
Had great success in in sort of spreading that message. So that’s been a real.
00:17:11
What?
00:17:12 Roger Griffith MBE
It has been I I wanna. I wanna come to that. But I wanna stay back with your the the your your conversation.
00:17:16 Roger Griffith MBE
It strikes me from your your, you.
00:17:18 Roger Griffith MBE
You you know you’ve mentioned it and and very kindly been open eyes in, in, in sharing some of your naivety and yeah and and talk about your connected my naivety I’m not gonna focus on on on individual.
00:17:32 Roger Griffith MBE
For the movement, both Bristol and and and wider and obviously includes cover some of the issues that that, that were raised there. More diverse boards were required cause it’s all all white boards we have to do constantly, we’re still.
00:17:44 Roger Griffith MBE
Isn’t there black people aren’t green. They’re not interested? Well, a busy fighting a a lot of other agendas. And yes, we certainly are. If the right thing is, is, is, is, is being talked about, we had issues about venue where people can get into the city centre. Remember border key in that argument. This is something that just as a as a key chains as soon as they got there we needed we needed support. There was all this money.
00:18:05 Roger Griffith MBE
As you said, pouring in to this and sector just in terms of infrastructure, websites and connections and and infights basic things around kind of childcare. And we know that we had for that that conversation we had a crush, believe it or not.
00:18:19 Roger Griffith MBE
And we and we, we had West Indian food and with the vegetarian option back there. And I know that’s just kind of some of these things are standard and some of these things are used to take apart them. But these were templates of of how to get and and and and engage communities.
00:18:35 Prof Rich Pancost
Not to overly fixate on money, but, but when you’re a big organization, a university, a City Council, anything like or a big company that wants to be more diverse, wants to be more inclusive.
00:18:45
Live.
00:18:47 Prof Rich Pancost
And invite someone like yourself or or other organizations to come along and help you for free. I mean, we’re we’re basically exploiting your knowledge, exploiting your wisdom, exploiting your life experiences. And again, that was one of the really early things that you write. It’s why we paid the green and black ambassadors, why we pay the black and green ambassadors because they are bringing knowledge and labor.
00:19:09 Prof Rich Pancost
I had a recent meeting, although it was a recent meeting. We were both in not so long ago and I forget who said it originally, but it was basically if a company wants a consultant, then pay a consultant, you know, so and and I think there is something to be said about that and again it comes back to inclusion being linked fundamentally to to equity.
00:19:28 Prof Rich Pancost
We had a.
00:19:29 Prof Rich Pancost
Lot to learn and yet yeah. As you said, you mentioned venues and all sorts of other things. How did you find it in the early going? Because to me I I knew I was coming into it and I I was.
00:19:39 Prof Rich Pancost
Able to sort of be in a bit of a position of privilege, as as the director of the Captain Student, sort of a representative of of the university as a big institution. So I was sort of in a position where I could.
00:19:51 Prof Rich Pancost
Well, I had a lot of privilege so I could have those difficult conversations and and and and argue with my friends if you will, and argue with colleagues and say we need to change. But it was from a position of privilege, but I imagine at times.
00:20:04 Prof Rich Pancost
You know.
00:20:06 Prof Rich Pancost
As brave as you are, Roger and is as strong you as you are, it must have been pretty difficult at times, challenging the mayor, challenging the city, challenging the movement, challenging.
00:20:17 Prof Rich Pancost
The way the world was again, especially during the time when everybody wanted to just celebrate being green capital.
00:20:22 Roger Griffith MBE
Absolutely. And you know, and I not only had to challenge my own priorities my own way of thinking because.
00:20:29 Roger Griffith MBE
I I you know we’ve got then as now we’ve got employment issues, issues of systematic and structural racism that that need to be addressed in our housing and our employment and, you know, things like sickle cell projects and our health then. So that all those things are there then and they’re and they’re there now that we that are I I had to tackle.
00:20:49 Roger Griffith MBE
Even the issue of paying the ambassadors was was we we got so used to what I I you know, controversy term the plantation and mentality where we would, yeah, just volunteers have to change that mentality and you know and had a bit of resistance with them that said no these are common.
00:21:04 Roger Griffith MBE
Consultants, everything that you’ve said in terms of expertise, when I’m when I’m going to those meetings and I’m freelance. So I’m looking around the table, I’m saying cheap and sick of this. I’m seeing envy of that. I’m seeing project lead for this and they’re they’re on the they’re on the block and they’re the they’re the holiday pays and bonus there’s nothing.
00:21:24 Roger Griffith MBE
Coming into mine and I’m the one doing now talk in a in a, in a in those meeting but you. But what you how you gonna change that? And that’s the kind of what? What. So that’s where we need the the ally. That’s where yourself. It was going back then the mayor’s office was Sears came along Gary Top was then leading.
00:21:45 Roger Griffith MBE
And Bristol Green Capital, a partnership. And so we we we then started putting together a narrative.
00:21:51 Roger Griffith MBE
And and I, you know, unburden in some of the of these issues, you’ve got resources when I say that the mainstream environmental and and organisations that talk talking about I’ve got the knowledge, let’s put that together and and what we need is the data. What we need is the report. What we need is a sense of word in a narrative.
00:22:11 Roger Griffith MBE
To begin with, and we would evolve this over a period of time. This is exactly what we did with this project, cause it it it’s quite simply and that’s why I love about it. Didn’t exist, does it it? It’s.
00:22:23 Roger Griffith MBE
As I say, started as an initiative and now it’s a a program of 10 years of of work, but that’s that’s the partnership that needs to happen. Having those conversations and discussions also, I’m not the the the expert. Let’s go to the community and they can talk about something and equalities, how to engage the things that they need and and and.
00:22:43 Roger Griffith MBE
And the training that they require, but also you know provides some solutions, more conversations you know use of the you know in our language, you know some of the things like or or or organic or even the word sustainability.
00:22:57 Roger Griffith MBE
Carbon, for instance, I have never in 10 years had a single conversation with another person of color that involves the word carbon. I’m still trying to look in the on on YouTube videos to find out or what it is. Now you saying about, you know what Jules did in terms of Peter Greens and you know recipes about or or or growing.
00:23:17 Roger Griffith MBE
A patch of the as my mum does in in, in in London, grown her into tomatoes. Sign me up. Signed me up.
00:23:27 Prof Rich Pancost
Yeah, that was the.
00:23:28 Prof Rich Pancost
Very, very first conversation you and I had. I remember distinctly. I remember was a is a.
00:23:33 Prof Rich Pancost
We the curious formerly at Bristol and you and I were talking about this issue and and and the specific point you made is like you know you can’t bring you know basically you know an environmental activist or academic to come down and talk give a a talk at the Malcolm X Center or or or or down in a a church.
00:23:53 Prof Rich Pancost
Or or a mosque in Saint Paul’s or or in Easton. You can’t come down and then basically tell. Tell that audience that they should.
00:24:02 Prof Rich Pancost
Buy organic food. First of all, that’s no recognition of of of their reality. It it it, it’s it. It’s no recognition of your privilege because of course, organic organic food costs.
00:24:14 Prof Rich Pancost
A lot of money. There’s a premium on that, but you’ve then followed up by saying like, but also every person in that audience, you know, knows.
00:24:23 Prof Rich Pancost
That you’re wasting a lot of food that that the white middle class in Bristol has a huge food waste problem and you then talked about I think you were talking about your grandmother and you’re talking about how, you know, if she butchered a chicken, she got every last little bit of of nutritional value out of that again and there. And you were saying there is knowledge in our communities and there is sustainability in our communities that is not being recognized.
00:24:39 Roger Griffith MBE
Everything.
00:24:47 Roger Griffith MBE
That we’ve got an old saying in Caribbean, the dogs got hung with their guard dogs. They didn’t. They ain’t ain’t getting leftovers and scraps. Eggs they’re being. They’re all. They’re all in the pot getting used up.
00:24:56 Prof Rich Pancost
Right. And it resonated with me because, you know, you know, I’m. I’m fairly privileged now, have a have a nice academic job. I grew up poor on a farm, and I remember my mom, you know, you know, and she could not waste food, you know, she she had to make use of everything.
00:25:13 Prof Rich Pancost
We had, I just that there was that little bit of that, that connection between family heritage, food and and you know, everything spun out of that.
00:25:22 Roger Griffith MBE
So then that light bulb moment that you that you had that you just kind of reflected and and it’s that you know again well this sounds that sounds easy, but we’re talking about what what what was then we now know that as audience segmentation you can still say?
00:25:38 Roger Griffith MBE
And you did deliver your community lectures with the audience in in, in mind, talking to them and with them asking them for, you know, breakout sessions and for them to give their their their inputs and you can still be on a be on a stage in, in, in Europe talking to academics across the world about the very same thing we just now you know this piece of the.
00:25:59 Roger Griffith MBE
Of of the of the jigsaw is being missed out because you haven’t segmented to the audience and you’re not, and you’re not catering to to their.
00:26:07 Roger Griffith MBE
Needs.
00:26:08 Prof Rich Pancost
But but as as you pointed out and and also I think you know many people are pointing out right now is that sometimes being that privilege academic it it’s it’s it’s not going off and giving all those other talks every now and then well or maybe even it should be much more frequent if you know if you’re a relatively privileged white male like myself it’s it’s not giving the talk but conceding the platform to someone else and again that was another big part of of the green and black ambassadors.
00:26:32 Prof Rich Pancost
Which was creating plat you know not creating platforms. The platforms existed we had profile but but ceding them to to different voices and because those voices were powerful and and and brought wisdom and understanding that that we did not so.
00:26:47 Prof Rich Pancost
Yeah, I think that was, you know, great fun. It was fantastic. I remember, you know, when we did the Cabot Lecture and and and and you chaired it with Jules and there was, it was fantastic. But I think it was. It was a disruptive experience to some of the, you know, the the more old school members of that community to be in the in the Great Hall.
00:27:06 Roger Griffith MBE
I could feel it. We, we, we. We felt it, yeah.
00:27:07 Prof Rich Pancost
But it’s fantastic. It was. It was energizing. People were being challenged.
00:27:12 Roger Griffith MBE
And I I was. I was just playing that I I I was just playing the straight guy. I was the Martin Lawrence to Jules’s Eddie. Eddie Murphy. But I felt it very much then that we were. I was like why? Well, we are way a long long way and it’s just.
00:27:28 Roger Griffith MBE
Like the.
00:27:28 Roger Griffith MBE
Road from from where our students are but.
00:27:31 Roger Griffith MBE
It felt a long, long way.
00:27:32 Roger Griffith MBE
From from home, but you’d ask us there to do our thing. And so that’s what we and that’s exactly we we did. It wouldn’t compromise in a in any in any way and you know as I said I backed whichever lead we had at the at the time.
00:27:48 Roger Griffith MBE
And Jules was leading that time. So I backed him 100% in what he was doing and and what he was making it unequivocal that he was gonna challenge him and and integrate that system.
00:27:57 Prof Rich Pancost
It’s really nice reminiscing about all of that because it was a fantastic and and exhilarating time and then we’ve gone on and you know, there’s been a lot of success with the ambassadors and getting more funding and such. But I’m wondering, actually, yeah, one of the whole points was that, you know, again was challenging this idea.
00:28:12 Prof Rich Pancost
How do we bring more diverse groups into the environment? Environmental movement? A big.
00:28:18 Prof Rich Pancost
Pushback was again from those original community conversations. There are already multiple movements and multiple initiatives and and of course you know there was a black to nature led by by Bird Girl and Helena Craig. And of course there’s 91 ways. So by Colton Wolfe and all sorts of other initiatives.
00:28:36 Prof Rich Pancost
And I’m wondering, you know, looking around today whether in Bristol or across the country or or or or in the states or globally, you know, what are some of the initiatives that you think are really promising and and pushing that that agenda?
00:28:48 Roger Griffith MBE
I think there are a number of them that that are there and you’ve you’ve kind of named them within that we’ve seen them, you know, both be out throughout the world.
00:28:57 Roger Griffith MBE
And and and here in in in in in in Bristol. But I’m running fast to kind of catch up with some of the things that you’re that you’re saying. So one of the things that we did with the green and black and Busters just turned into jazz and sakia. I mean, in terms of breaking down.
00:29:13 Roger Griffith MBE
That one of.
00:29:14 Roger Griffith MBE
The there are three big components. OK, so.
00:29:17 Roger Griffith MBE
We obviously needed the media component for the radio social media. We’ve got voice.
00:29:24 Roger Griffith MBE
Yeah, we’ve, we’ve talked a lot about community and we we will, I will come to that shortly. The third part of that agenda and obviously that’s the academic side from from Cabot, which we’ve we’ve discussed the third part was leadership, both Community leadership but also we we we had to change the narrative in terms of working with organizations such as.
00:29:44 Roger Griffith MBE
And a host of of organisations in in in Bristol, because they were all.
00:29:49 Roger Griffith MBE
And we had to spend certainly was OK and jazz at the time, I imagined it being more community focused, but the need wasn’t there. The need was was with me, with was with those organisations who needed to to see black women in leadership talking about having these conversations. And I think we, you know.
00:30:08 Roger Griffith MBE
Because that is where the where where the power is. Those organizations that you’ve mentioned will continue to exist and deliver and we, like I said, we will get to the Community aspect, but I don’t wanna kind of brush over the the important work.
00:30:22 Roger Griffith MBE
Of justice hearing black people in that space and the leadership and again now we when we look back and we can say well that’s a a reverse mention that was taking place there as you said you you were listening but around issues around diversity and inclusion directly involved about race and and and and and social justice around the costs of things and and.
00:30:42 Roger Griffith MBE
And the like and having these conversations.
00:30:45 Prof Rich Pancost
I just jump in for a moment.
00:30:47 Prof Rich Pancost
I’m watching because because I.
00:30:48 Prof Rich Pancost
I get so uncomfortable whenever I’m talk.
00:30:50 Prof Rich Pancost
Thinking about the Greek, you know the ambassadors I’m talking about. What we, you know, and I’m talking about what it was and is the media and all of this and and all the different things and. And I guess more comfortable when talking about the training aspect because of course, you know, we did the media training and and and colleagues university did some training on Co production research. I did some training around climate change and it always makes me feel uncomfortable. It’s because of the word you mentioned that.
00:31:10 Prof Rich Pancost
And the reality?
00:31:11 Prof Rich Pancost
Was we in the institutions were being trained that reverse mentoring was so fundamentally important. And I mean, yeah, I I, I I I feel always a little awkward say because I’m I’m certain that I learned more from them than they learned from me.
00:31:25 Roger Griffith MBE
Right. And that that and and and that was what I heard you saying that was the you know again the acknowledgement it just can break down barriers when you got institutions in the years saying no, no, no no no no and more Nos.
00:31:38 Roger Griffith MBE
And then you get a guy says come along and say, yeah, we you know, whether it’s a, you know, we’ve seen this with with apartheid or the end of of translated slave tree or where and and and then things will move quickly. Sure we’ve still got a lot of things to to go but just in acknowledgement thinking I’m not going crazy into this exchange whether it’s you know financial into services providers and and consultancy.
00:31:59 Roger Griffith MBE
Or ideas exchange?
00:32:00 Roger Griffith MBE
It’s something that is a thing and valid and it’s and and and can be can be utilized. Our struggle as part of that experience and if we’re going to talk about the, this is where the heart of it is. And again and so much I can give to towards that, you need different community leaders in, in, in, in, in her field and and and.
00:32:21 Roger Griffith MBE
And and many others think we’re this farm is is another one.
00:32:26 Roger Griffith MBE
And and and and lots of different kind of community groups and faith-based groups. And in terms of Muslim and as I said, Rastafarian communities who have been who are and doing this nature work. But we needed to kind of be in the centre of activism of where it was taking place within and Wildlife Trust.
00:32:46 Roger Griffith MBE
You know, currently doing some stuff with with and and a a variety more because again, they’re the ones attending these these meetings. And when you’re trying to hear about his grandfathers and the hotels and you know, getting Peaches in as well as part of that narrative and the you know.
00:33:01 Roger Griffith MBE
Lord Lieutenant now. But she comes from an enslaved in in, in the and Carolinas, and Roy Hackett. And what the Roy Hackett. Same. And we asked him and said everybody wants to know about the racism and the best, the best boycott and the struggle. But no one. No one. No one asked me. But in my in my.
00:33:18 Roger Griffith MBE
Life about that I.
00:33:19 Roger Griffith MBE
Was a fireman’s boy and he grew up in a farm.
00:33:21 Roger Griffith MBE
In Jamaica and he still misses that community. And now I think it’s from St. Annes that he is in, in, in Jamaica, no one had said, well, no one asked me about those. Those things again we were. You know, there’s only a certain part of that that, that of the of that, that, that narrative that people want want to know and.
00:33:41 Roger Griffith MBE
Of course we’re.
00:33:42
Far.
00:33:42 Roger Griffith MBE
More multi dimensional.
00:33:44
No.
00:33:44 Prof Rich Pancost
And you know, just a quick one on on on Peaches Golding cause because she’s obviously been incredibly influential and I’ve been lucky enough you both of us have been lucky enough to work with her in all sorts of contexts. But I do remember again, during the green capital year, you know, pretty much, you know, at every event it was Peaches and and and I again, I distinctly remember when we finished the green and black.
00:34:05 Prof Rich Pancost
Conversation and the discussion around all those issues and we thought well, what comes next, what comes.
00:34:09 Prof Rich Pancost
Next, and you you specifically of all the things we’ve talked about, you specifically said, where is the next generation of leaders and who is investing in the next generation of leaders because you know you can’t have you doing everything, you can’t have Peaches being on every board and there is an obligation of institutions like universities and.
00:34:29 Prof Rich Pancost
Tend to pull institutions or something, you know, things that are deeply invested in the city have a deep obligation to invest in the people of that city and and again, I I I feel that of all the things that that, that.
00:34:40 Prof Rich Pancost
Black and green achieved it. Was it? It is about supporting a new generation of leaders. They got all the talent everywhere, but they need people who invest in them. Yeah. And it’s been exciting to see how. That’s how, how the success they’ve had after they’ve finished up.
00:34:53 Roger Griffith MBE
Absolutely. And also what they’re the, you know, for the amount of applications that we had for the for the next phase of which we’ve got national funding for and that gang that’s that’s work done by Cat Wolf from the Policy Institute. Again to provide that your own team in terms of Haley and against training and you know what?
00:35:14 Roger Griffith MBE
Kind of what they did as well to.
00:35:17 Roger Griffith MBE
To someone needs to.
00:35:17 Roger Griffith MBE
Put again to put the data.
00:35:19 Roger Griffith MBE
But my role is is is more of a conduit, so I can you know the if we take if we take the the the formerly known statue of Edward, that Coulson as A at the at the Biden line it’s it’s it’s like there’s that that’s like can can feel like the Atlantic Ocean I am a conduit so I can walk through there that into Saint Paul’s in the community.
00:35:40 Roger Griffith MBE
And I’ve always said this as well and I’m working working with a group of.
00:35:46 Roger Griffith MBE
Black, Asian and ethnically diverse people on any given subject. And then they are only someone who would invest the best. No one likes us. We don’t want any, you know. You know the the the racist practices don’t make us apply. I could walk up to the woodshed and and see you have a good, good, good chat.
00:36:06 Roger Griffith MBE
And you know in, in, in the bars and in in, in in in pre COVID join another meeting and you know with the Arts Council people.
00:36:14 Roger Griffith MBE
Said or the OR.
00:36:15 Roger Griffith MBE
The the activists and the academics and saying.
00:36:17 Roger Griffith MBE
Got this job right and no one’s applied, you know, no one seems to want an interest. I’m like, hang on a minute. I just left there. You guys need to kind of.
00:36:27 Roger Griffith MBE
Come together and that’s.
00:36:29 Roger Griffith MBE
Apparently it’s really that’s what they say. More more producer than than anything else. It’s to bring them together so I can see both ways. And I can see that we’ve got leadership developer.
00:36:38 Roger Griffith MBE
Approaching. I’m in the old school. I was taught about my activist and I had to give back in.
00:36:42 Roger Griffith MBE
That community? I’m.
00:36:44 Roger Griffith MBE
I’ve a lot more challenges financially than.
00:36:46 Roger Griffith MBE
I ever did.
00:36:47 Roger Griffith MBE
In terms of like debts like you have got my own privilege in terms. So I’ve got my own home in my 20s.
00:36:56 Roger Griffith MBE
And so so some of that is, is they haven’t got those, so they haven’t got the same amount of time and neither should they be sitting in three hour long meetings with a whole load page and then they need to do something kind of different than that. There’s another story, but there is that, that leadership deficit that I’m fully aware of that.
00:37:16 Roger Griffith MBE
And so I can push into those forums to start getting that spread and then and making sure the resolve all the resources. Must I hate the phrase trickled down into them and then hopefully that becomes a a flood and and then the phrase I prefer is the the kind of rising tides approach where we move everybody up.
00:37:34 Roger Griffith MBE
Yeah.
00:37:35 Prof Rich Pancost
You know, I I never actually quite made this connection, but in, you know, so, so obviously we were talking about leaders, but what you’ve also been talking about is the role of Community and and and and the role that you’ve had in our community for a long time as a facilitator. And I’ve ever made quite made the connection that when I was camping director, I always viewed my main job was not to do things but was to facilitate.
00:37:55 Prof Rich Pancost
And to connect people and to build.
00:37:56 Prof Rich Pancost
Unity and and it is something that I find quite interesting in that you know. So the leadership is important. Lifting people up is important. But so often we overly fixate on on individuals when we know to achieve real change, the real, the big movements, yes, there were leaders in the Bristol bus boycott, but it was a Community initiative and it was a community movement.
00:38:19 Prof Rich Pancost
And I do think that, umm, sometimes we don’t value.
00:38:25 Prof Rich Pancost
Community movements, community efforts and as a consequence, we don’t value people like you who necessarily are doing absolutely critical community building just by connecting 2345 people, projects, opportunities, initiatives, funding. But it is how we build a stronger city and how we build a strong movement.
00:38:45 Prof Rich Pancost
So I I I feel that Bristol really benefits by having people like yourself go out there connecting all these different opportunities. And as you said, just sort of being in being in and around and knowing what’s going on.
00:38:57 Prof Rich Pancost
But it also.
00:38:57 Roger Griffith MBE
Takes people without you, you know, to to.
00:39:01 Roger Griffith MBE
Have that kind of vision and also an acknowledgement, and then put them into action in terms of the the the resources you know, you know just said about your your kind of team members as as well on the whole Institute and putting the weight behind that that that leadership on that you know and putting us.
00:39:20 Roger Griffith MBE
In that spotlight, in terms of on the stage there also within the projects.
00:39:25 Roger Griffith MBE
Says it. So now this is the way we’re gonna do things now. And that, you know, people can sign up to it or do something else, whether that’s any organisation, institution, putting in a series of of things that have that happened, the physical resource of of both finance and assistance in the, you know, bid writing in, in, in, in support, just being there to do whatever it like.
00:39:45 Roger Griffith MBE
Like or just, you know, like I say, just be assembled and and just call up and say, yeah, how’s how?
00:39:51 Roger Griffith MBE
Things going and being there as a mentors for as, as Kieran, Jazz knowing because there was no again, there’s no template for any of this stuff. You know how you know, I know lot, you know people now would say Oh yeah, you need console. Well, you can consult up to a point. You know what’s right, you’ve seen all the reports are reports that go in.
00:40:11 Roger Griffith MBE
In this country in the UK that have, there have been Stuart Hall and and Stuart of Birmingham said there’s over 50 reports about racism. Racism each has a local version and the Landry report. Now I’ve got local version about policing. So you.
00:40:25 Roger Griffith MBE
There’s enough stuff there, running me. Trust that there to to know what’s right and to say look, we need to do X and and and put people in there. And I know, I know. You know, just care to look but but but again they were they you know it was it was that’s where you came along and said and this is action research so it was to go out and find like well we need we need some no just go out have some fun.
00:40:45 Roger Griffith MBE
Explore, see what you come back with. Bring some stuff back in there, and then we’ll see what we what we can do with now.
00:40:52 Roger Griffith MBE
And sleep. We put some things in place with the supervisor, but those initial things don’t be frightened and and shackled by the the need to to have everything perfect at the beginning, because there’s just no such thing never existed in, in, in history. And we’re talking about policy that I think about why things got changed.
00:41:12 Roger Griffith MBE
Or stimulus bills in terms of of why there can’t be a a pass, there’s some perfect scenario that just never ever existed. And we know from other ways that people have worked it out along the way.
00:41:24 Roger Griffith MBE
Good and bad or as well?
00:41:27 Prof Rich Pancost
I mean, certainly when we were starting, it was it was imperfect because we didn’t, you know, we we wanted to fund it, but we didn’t have lots of funding. So we’re bolting things together is all sort of bits and pieces and. But yeah, it was it. Sometimes you just have to get stuck in and it’s amazing what you learned with that. You know, you were talking about the, you know, there’s no template you, you might as well said. There’s no rule book but of course.
00:41:48 Prof Rich Pancost
With many of these things, there is an unwritten rulebook that many people know and others don’t. There are a lot of organizations that when a university or or a government agency, or someone puts out a funding.
00:42:00 Prof Rich Pancost
Law.
00:42:00 Prof Rich Pancost
They can bash out.
00:42:01 Prof Rich Pancost
A proposal in an afternoon or a day, whereas other people have never written a proposal that could take weeks and weeks and.
00:42:06 Prof Rich Pancost
Weeks. So there’s a whole bunch of.
00:42:08 Prof Rich Pancost
These barriers that that must be overcome, and I think that’s overcome by actually, you know, getting into into just getting stuck into the messy work of collaboration and.
00:42:20 Prof Rich Pancost
Production.
00:42:21 Roger Griffith MBE
Absolutely. And one of the things there that was obviously some sort of is is how we look at the future and events that happened last year, you know, and I I I was frame it within 4 pandemics already started the year with environmental pandemic of what you’ve got to say, but is aware of we had the health pandemic.
00:42:41 Roger Griffith MBE
They make these people and they come out now.
00:42:43 Roger Griffith MBE
That’s not into.
00:42:44 Roger Griffith MBE
An economic pandemic? That’s my my, my, my opinion from that and obviously that I believe that we had the IT it started a a racial reckoning and and a racial pandemic SO4 pandemics. But look at that last one in in particular and following the the black.
00:43:00 Roger Griffith MBE
Matter movement forward to to present day and what we can learn from that within this compensation is those issues that that you know we’ve moved away from this you know much as you know as painful to see Derek Chauvin on the on the neck of George Floyd and we say her name Brianna Taylor the individual acts we need to look at the structures and systems.
00:43:22 Roger Griffith MBE
Behind that you’ve just mentioned them the the the them there system structure structure.
00:43:28 Roger Griffith MBE
There’s code. That’s what we talked about in terms of dismantling racism. We’re gonna get any further because the the social justice way of protest against individual acts, quite frankly, somebody’s been working in the movement for 40, hasn’t worked. We ignored some of the things that were put there, which we know is institutional racism, which but first and wrote in 1999 and said that nothing and I’ve.
00:43:48 Roger Griffith MBE
And said all of those reports we’ve had focused on the on the.
00:43:52 Roger Griffith MBE
Into that how to put an application? No no one said. Ohh nudge nudge, wink wink there’s there’s this application that you just know. I don’t know. I don’t know what those keywords are you just know and I’m like well how do you know well, what was this course I didn’t see so I’m.
00:44:07 Roger Griffith MBE
Just scrolling down.
00:44:08 Roger Griffith MBE
I didn’t see the course, but you’ve been in those institutions saying how things are done.
00:44:12 Roger Griffith MBE
So hey, so again, I’m talking about leveling up or leveling the playing fields. We know that didn’t recognise some people started way, way back over.
00:44:20 Roger Griffith MBE
Yeah, before they get to the even even the starting line of stuff. And that’s what that’s what 20/20/10 and 20 has done with social insect, structural racism and institutional racism. And in the framework of social justice now can be understand and contextualized in that this is what needs to be dismantled. So you may need to take some positive actions just to have those sessions and.
00:44:40 Roger Griffith MBE
Explain a little bit more. Bristow at universities have been brilliant and can explain a little bit about what we kind of need to get to get started because there’s certain rules that can be.
00:44:50 Roger Griffith MBE
Both. Damn you.
00:44:51 Roger Griffith MBE
Know that’s just the way things are in an application form. For instance, be a job or an academic project. However, what support needed to to?
00:45:00 Roger Griffith MBE
Get people competitive in the game so they can really get the back, and then we’ll talk about inclusion and getting a wide range, whether it’s from LGBTQ plus groups or the Sabre groups. Then we can start talking about having a a real and proper conversation about the actual content rather than who’s in the room and who isn’t applying.
00:45:17 Prof Rich Pancost
It’s so easy in the institutions at University of Bristol to sort of say, oh, well, we’ll, we’ll solve our problems with unconscious bias training or or or focus groups and such, which basically says.
00:45:29 Prof Rich Pancost
Well, I mean it it.
00:45:30 Prof Rich Pancost
I think they’re useful in their valuable to to because it asks individuals to understand their own biases. But as an institution, it completely ignores the structural systemic racism in higher education, just like Black Lives Matter highlighted the structural racism in policing.
00:45:48 Prof Rich Pancost
Right. You know and and and effective.
00:45:50 Prof Rich Pancost
Really.
00:45:51 Prof Rich Pancost
You know, I know that this was a tragic, tragic summer, but I have seen institutions finally finally actually having conversations around structural and systemic racism and potential solutions. And as you said, finally having conversations around positive action and and I suppose that is a little bit of a silver lining because that’s certainly what we always aspired to.
00:46:14 Prof Rich Pancost
When we started working together, I mean, how are you feeling right now? Are you feeling generally positive that real change is happening, that we’re finally addressing these real issues or you still think it might just be a bit of, you know, greenwashing or whitewashing?
00:46:29 Roger Griffith MBE
It’s very hard to kind of give a a scorecard across issues of, you know, employment, health, education and even with education, we’re talking, you know, we’re talking about in the in, in the, in the playground and suspensions to teacher training to lack of the academics, professors.
00:46:49 Roger Griffith MBE
Lectures like our ourselves right up to the rewarding gaps. We’ve got a whole scorecard of things to to kind.
00:46:55 Roger Griffith MBE
The lookup placing it within the the and again you know on the stay away from the individual acts of the police and criminal justice cause a whole a different thing, but placing it within the environmental movement what we had is what we’ve had in the last two months with the election of of.
00:47:15 Roger Griffith MBE
Joe Biden and the stimulus bill, then. That’s that’s gone through was the some legislation, some thoughts, some people have actually listened to. People have gone through not a couple of not four years.
00:47:30 Roger Griffith MBE
Of of social injustice, not even a lifetime, but decades of, of black farmers on the on the land and and of course again, the people who are removed from that land in terms of the the Native Americans that are there and that repayment of of of, of of to acknowledge that they’re of the systematic practices that the government.
00:47:51 Roger Griffith MBE
Put them, put them back. That is an acknowledgement that will change lives and take people out of of of poverty. The fact that we’re looking at.
00:47:59 Roger Griffith MBE
Uh, you know where some of these power plants have have gone in in terms of Flint in Michigan, cancer alley, down in, in where I spent some some time in, in, in, in Louisiana on the edge of New Orleans and got this big power plants that are there that poisoning the water poisoning the air and an atmosphere.
00:48:20 Roger Griffith MBE
And obviously then then then when COVID comes and they already had high health codes comes.
00:48:24 Roger Griffith MBE
Down saying oh, there’s.
00:48:25 Roger Griffith MBE
A spike there, I wonder what?
00:48:26 Roger Griffith MBE
That is well, yeah, OK. It’s just because they’re there.
00:48:29 Roger Griffith MBE
They’re they’re black people. Well, there’s a reason and they were stuck there because of the. Again, the systematic stuff there. These things were in Johnny acknowledge and it’s now for people like myself to to examine the policy and see what we can. And we can do here. We’ve already seen the death of that young young go through the clean air in London. How colour are directly effective? Our mayor here has said there’s a 10 year.
00:48:50 Roger Griffith MBE
We live in Clifton Clifton in Easton. Is it like I say, it’s not like a different country. It’s not like I don’t even given to to Wales, just over the border from us. It’s only.
00:48:59 Roger Griffith MBE
100 miles take 10 years off your life. We’ve been talking about, you know, when we our first project taking it back to the beginning was exactly that. Look at the M32 that cut those communities at Eastern and Saint Paul’s. And we went and talked to residents in the school, got school there. Millpond School, Jct. 3. What’s it like to live here? What’s the life? How could it, you know, in the summer state, do you have your windows?
00:49:19 Roger Griffith MBE
You must be joking or the noise and traffic and smoke and right. Well, we’ve got a story here. Let’s start. Let’s start developing. So our.
00:49:26 Roger Griffith MBE
And journalists, we’re in our on that from the beginning. So finally we we can start to kind of amplify that and use that in, in, in, in policy not only in the UK and US but also through our again those countries that we we come from in Asia, Africa and America where there’s indigenous populations and Caribs after all where the Amazon is being ruined at the moment that’s where we get our name.
00:49:46 Roger Griffith MBE
The Caribbean is it’s based on the whole indigenous problems where we were taken out of our that’s where it’s all interconnected in and that’s where it’s more policy and practices and initiative.
00:49:57 Roger Griffith MBE
And that closer movement to black indigenous people of colour across the world and the sea here in Britain and Bristol through our green and black ambassadors and our own initiative black seas.
00:50:07 Roger Griffith MBE
Network.
00:50:08 Prof Rich Pancost
But I think that’s also, you know, probably one of the things that’s maybe most.
00:50:13 Prof Rich Pancost
Embarrassing about the slow awakening of the environment movement to this, since that, you know, I think you know, you know, OK, you go back 20 years.
00:50:23 Prof Rich Pancost
Overly fixated on polar bears.
00:50:25 Prof Rich Pancost
The environment movement then.
00:50:27 Prof Rich Pancost
Began to realize this, but again it was very much looking to the exploitation and the and the impacts of climate change on the global S absolutely a critical issue. It’s a critical issue, but utterly ignoring what was happening in their own backyard this 10 year life expectancy between adjacent neighborhoods in Bristol, I mean that is.
00:50:45 Prof Rich Pancost
Shameful. You mentioned all of the you know whether you’re talking about Flint or or Cancer alley or other other sort places. But we should have also learned this from Hurricane Katrina, right? You know, Hurricane Katrina we saw.
00:50:56 Prof Rich Pancost
Now, who was most vulnerable to climate change because of years of neglect of of of where they lived, that that made them more vulnerable? And, you know, then again, in 2017, we learned when Hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico. So we get these lessons again and again, that it’s not just, you know, the the most marginalized people in the world.
00:51:16 Prof Rich Pancost
It’s the most marginalized people in our own cities, in our own backyards and and and and we just have to get on.
00:51:21 Prof Rich Pancost
On top of.
00:51:21 Prof Rich Pancost
That, but you know you.
00:51:23 Prof Rich Pancost
And I have talked a lot about sort of the shared, the shared sins between, you know, you know the United States and the UK, especially through the the slave trade and also, you know suppression of of you know of of minority vote suppression of those voices.
00:51:38 Prof Rich Pancost
But we’ve also.
00:51:38 Prof Rich Pancost
Talked about sort of shared successes and knowledge. You know there is sort of that connection between Rosa Parks and the Bristol.
00:51:45 Prof Rich Pancost
They got, but I mean looking around right now, what? What do you think are the standard opportunities, you know you, you you mentioned Biden and you know the stimulus package and things like the Green New Deal is that should we be should we be reinvesting you know in terms of what we can learn positively from each other in terms of of community building and and and the intersection of environmental and social justice.
00:52:06 Roger Griffith MBE
Absolutely. We had Julian speaking. That’s the the recent conference and and and and and learning there and and and and I only kind of use those models because you’ve got critical massive people and you’ve got generations there are used to the to to delivering that we’re in smaller numbers here.
00:52:24 Roger Griffith MBE
And and change, you know can move fast in America as we’ve seen through the the election of Barack Obama. But problems can can still linger remains you can you can cherry pick models from from the US I think we are a vital intersection in terms of kind of making the those those connections.
00:52:44 Roger Griffith MBE
Day of of, of, of Always Kind.
00:52:47 Roger Griffith MBE
Uh. Been there and and and and those those, those leaders and and making those those models here and obviously we’ve got stuff to to teach and and and show them and many of us would it’s Peaches or zakiya are are out of the Americas in any case and as far as the Caribbean is concerned we’re having a alongside.
00:53:07 Roger Griffith MBE
Between and I’ve, you know, done voluntary work down in.
00:53:09 Roger Griffith MBE
Lower 9th we’re seeing.
00:53:10 Roger Griffith MBE
Literally. Uh Caribbean islands trying to be wiped out every year we’ve had, you know, Bermuda was the the latest in a in a series of Haiti. But before that, Dominica as well. And every year we have those change. So we’re we’re we’re we’re seeing that again.
00:53:31 Roger Griffith MBE
How we can support those communities? We’re making a fundraising and Sherry Eugene has done loads for her. Her place in Dominica.
00:53:40 Roger Griffith MBE
As well. So this stuff really matters to us, but it’s it’s how we get that those narratives out and and in to the that not only the amongst ourselves but into the wider main mainstream and also engage our you know going back to what you’re saying in terms of gaining and gaining local.
00:54:00 Roger Griffith MBE
Communities, but they’re not aware. Sometimes of, you know, alongside their economic constraints alongside their educational, educational constraints of police criminal justice, that they may be suffering as well.
00:54:17 Roger Griffith MBE
That they, you know, this is a part of of of their their history and and and and heritage. And there’s a a nice side that they can present to that in terms of their their grandparents or their their ancestors being a a fully engaged and involved.
00:54:33 Prof Rich Pancost
And you’ve mentioned.
00:54:35 Prof Rich Pancost
Not just all that experience the community brings, but I mean, I I’d hope that anybody who’s like sitting through this conversation is, you know, listening and and hearing, like, you know, all these names that we throw around, people who have inspired us, people we’ve.
00:54:47 Prof Rich Pancost
Worked with people and and.
00:54:49 Prof Rich Pancost
And and by God, if there, if there’s someone listening to the to this conversation, I I hope that the one thing they take away from this and they never say again again is.
00:54:58 Prof Rich Pancost
How do we get black people interested in nature? How do we get black people interested in?
00:55:02 Prof Rich Pancost
The environment, the the interest.
00:55:04 Prof Rich Pancost
I I’m embarrassed for times that I I probably did say that in the past it, you know, the interest is profound. It’s deep, it’s cultural. It’s there just cause we’re ignoring it doesn’t mean that it’s not there and and it and it’s so much great potential and I think that’s sort of where I was. I was talking before about.
00:55:20 Prof Rich Pancost
Like how how it was, you know, the original conversations were challenging, but they were also joyful to hear all these different perspectives. And and it was fantastic. And it was a brilliant experience. And I hope other people like, you know, people in these institutions, you know, people with privilege like myself, stopped looking at this as, like, some chore that they have to do and something that’s quite exhilarating to go out and make new colleagues and collaborations. And it will be tough at times and they’ll make stupid mistakes. But it.
00:55:44 Prof Rich Pancost
It will be. It will be powerful and rewarding.
00:55:48 Roger Griffith MBE
Absolutely. And it starts right there with that conversation. Same way you and I started the same way we’ve, we’ve we’ve gone starts with the reach out attending, finding out who’s in your local community, who, who, who, who you can, who’s actually might have been approached. You Nisha Bevan, come to me from, from, from.
00:56:08 Roger Griffith MBE
Saying I I’d like to do this. That’s fine. I you know, how can I help? It was great that someone was there to kind of help me take up the load. The load. And like I said, we started the black season initiatives for a as a no local network for environmentalists of of colour was still in development.
00:56:24 Roger Griffith MBE
Of what? Of what? That kind of looks like. So all these things start with a a conversation. They do need resources, physical otherwise. But we’re talking we’re, you know, we’re the first project is less than six figures.
00:56:36 Prof Rich Pancost
Yeah, yeah. The what, what was it? I mean, I think it was.
00:56:38 Prof Rich Pancost
The first project.
00:56:39 Prof Rich Pancost
Was something like, you know, 10,000 lbs. And then and then we bolted on another 5000.
00:56:44 Prof Rich Pancost
Pounds or so before we properly.
00:56:46 Roger Griffith MBE
And we added in.
00:56:47 Roger Griffith MBE
And we stumbled a couple things here.
00:56:49 Roger Griffith MBE
Yeah, you know, you know business has its has its its role role to play of course and they need to be lettered. But you know this is where the entrepreneurship is in. We’re in kind of different times and different different times of gang and we we know that those in government have a you know other other priorities we can’t wait for, for for anybody you’ve got a good idea.
00:57:10 Roger Griffith MBE
Find a as as somebody who you can cotton on within the community and help you deliver it.
00:57:16 Prof Rich Pancost
Yeah, I’m not thinking that. Yeah, absolutely. I I think there’s just something about unleashing the power of the community. It is there. And, you know, it’s interesting cause I think, you know, one of the things that Campbell wants to do is they they want to sort of share these reflections with governments, with leaders and such. And I, you know, and and to I think leaders are probably predisposed thinking.
00:57:37 Prof Rich Pancost
It’s I I want to lead. I want to control. It’s my job to.
00:57:39 Prof Rich Pancost
Do this well, you know.
00:57:43 Prof Rich Pancost
Sometimes the best part of leading is is is is a lab is unleashing the talent and the passion of the people who are there already and and sometimes it means conceding a little bit of control. I certainly you know, I’m sure our mayor, one of his main messages to central government was give more power to the city, give more power to us. We can act with the local.
00:58:02 Prof Rich Pancost
Level, but by the same token, community organizations will talk to our mayor and say, give us some resource we can act. We’re right in this neighborhood right on the street, we can make a difference if you help us.
00:58:13 Roger Griffith MBE
Absolutely. And in in, in, in and in in terms of that just at the local leadership level, it’s also you know it’s it’s it’s it’s embodying that as as as you’ve done and just just listening then standing back and you know from the the the kind of a full weight behind behind it.
00:58:33 Roger Griffith MBE
It’s doing things with and.
00:58:34 Roger Griffith MBE
Not for.
00:58:36 Roger Griffith MBE
And in in the true cooperation of of partnership, it may be the same the putting the the all the infrastructure in, in, in place and then standing back and saying, I’m over here when you when, when you kind of kind of need me because they’ll they’ll go and find their own community leaders at the at the next community.
00:58:55 Roger Griffith MBE
Uh. A level they’ll be saying. Well, yeah, I’m only at the surface of this. And so as as very.
00:59:00 Roger Griffith MBE
Much I am.
00:59:01 Roger Griffith MBE
I’m not stop a A being on a A on on on the on the streets with my ears on the ground I’ve got people.
00:59:07 Roger Griffith MBE
You do that now. I understand that now I can’t keep current of of things and things have changed again since since COVID. I’ve got my network that that’s there and they’ve got their their their network like like soldiers on the grounds on the street soldiers in the in the in the proper positive sense of it. And those are the people that we.
00:59:27 Roger Griffith MBE
We we’ll be connecting and they say ohh.
00:59:29 Roger Griffith MBE
I don’t know how to, you know, fill in that fund. Wow. OK. You know, we need to find somebody who can assist in, in, in, in doing that infrastructure. Now all the boring bureaucratic stuff. I learned that the that that is what? What, what? What’s the? There’s no that fancy wheels and that that’s for the community to to think of. They think of the idea.
00:59:48 Roger Griffith MBE
Is our job.
00:59:49 Roger Griffith MBE
In in in that leadership is is just to do the you know the evaluation reports.
00:59:54 Roger Griffith MBE
The gathering the data, the, the, the monitoring, finding the the resources, sure, we got to make the case at senior level and we’ll we’ll articulate that cause people say I have a room full of people or well.
01:00:07 Roger Griffith MBE
You know I.
01:00:08 Roger Griffith MBE
Can hear from that. I can I I can keep talking to the to the kind of this time next week on the engaged on it so.
01:00:14 Roger Griffith MBE
What don’t you tell me what you wanna do?
01:00:16 Roger Griffith MBE
And we’ll, we’ll take care of.
01:00:17 Roger Griffith MBE
That’s.
01:00:18 Prof Rich Pancost
Maybe this is a good way to end is to end with this sort of like you know, you know, asking leaders to to empower the community but but empowering is not just passing on responsibility but it is providing the resources, the support, the knowledge you know taking on some of the the dull tedious administrative jobs to allow the communities talent to shine. So so so.
01:00:37 Prof Rich Pancost
I think that’s probably a good way to.
01:00:39 Prof Rich Pancost
And but I feel like I, you know, Roger, you should have the final word. Final final thought.
01:00:45 Roger Griffith MBE
My final thought would be, you know, as we’ve we’ve moved from George Floyd’s last words, I can’t breathe. We can’t breathe. So that that, that racism has that been there for centuries, I would say, since the plantation fields that are still there and we’ve still got remnants of of of.
01:01:03 Roger Griffith MBE
That there. How?
01:01:04 Roger Griffith MBE
Are we going to?
01:01:06 Roger Griffith MBE
We’re we’re within.
01:01:08 Roger Griffith MBE
Race, racism and environmental movements, and then systematically deconstruct what’s there. What’s there? I’m asking organisations to look within and seeing how they can do that, cause your experts you can feel and ask them to get engaged in, in with their community. And my final thought is that the the, the pleasure and the journey that we’ve been on.
01:01:30 Roger Griffith MBE
Both together and as individuals from Jima and and and cabinet, and all the associated projects and partners. And it’s been a been a pleasure, hasn’t actually been too painful because of the acknowledgment that’s that’s going along. We we we walked shoulder and shoulder as our former civil rights.
01:01:50 Roger Griffith MBE
Actors have have done in the past. It’s been an absolute pleasure.
01:02:00 Cabot Institute
You can find out more about the Cabot Institute for the environment at bristol.ac.uk/cabot.
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